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hi n dry

Beach Lover
Sep 12, 2005
205
28
MEDICINE
Thanks, But No Thanks

Why more doctors, medical schools and hospitals are just saying no to drug-company promotions.
By Anne Underwood | NEWSWEEK
Oct 29, 2007 Issue
Dr. Jonathan Mohrer, a New York internist, used to tolerate visits from drug-company representatives. The reps provided a break in the routine, brought free pens, lunches and drug samples, and, most important, answered questions about new medications. But as the number of visits swelled to as many as 10 a day, his patience wore thin. It finally snapped in the fall of 2004, when the heavily promoted painkiller Vioxx was withdrawn after clear evidence emerged that it increased the risk of heart attacks. "I'd been getting pitches for Vioxx almost every week, even while questions were being raised about it in medical journals," says Mohrer. He kicked the reps out and made it clear he wouldn't take their calls in the future. "It's been a real relief," he says. "I don't know how I juggled it all."

Mohrer is one of a number of doctors who are just saying no to drug-company promotions. Some belong to No Free Lunch, an organization that asks doctors to take a pledge not to receive drug-company representatives. Admittedly, their numbers are small. Founded in 1999, No Free Lunch has just 800 members out of 800,000 practicing physicians in this country. The American Medical Student Association (AMSA) has collected a similar number of pledges among the nation's 68,000 med students, but that's twice as many pledges as it had a year ago. And increasing numbers of hospitals, health-care systems, medical schools and even states are starting to institute restrictive policies. Minnesota has already set limits on gifts, and three other states are weighing similar bills. "There's growing evidence that these relationships color doctors' prescribing practices, even if doctors think they don't," says Dr. Karen Antman, dean of Boston University's medical school, which last month instituted a ban on all gifts and lunches from drug reps and allows reps to visit only if invited.

It's no secret that Big Pharma spends megabucks marketing to physicians. In 2004, the total ran to $23 billion, including $15.9 billion in free drug samples, according to the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA). Drug reps provide "solid, scientific, FDA-approved information on the safety and efficacy of our drugs," says Dr. Cathryn Clary, vice president of Pfizer. "So many medicines are getting label updates all the time, it's hard to keep current."

But critics say sales reps do a lot more than educate. They come armed with information from databases telling them individual physicians' prescribing practices. They know before a visit whether a doctor prescribes a competitor's drug?and whether he switches after a sales call. They also bring gifts. True, PhRMA instituted voluntary guidelines in 2002 banning big-ticket items, like harbor cruises and golf outings. But social scientists say that trivial gifts like pens create a sense of obligation, too?all the more so when the friendly person who drops them off, along with free food for the staff, is a regular visitor. It doesn't hurt that the drug logos on pens and notepads keep a drug in the doctor's mind. Even free samples, which patients love (and sometimes depend on), aren't as philanthropic as they seem, given that they're often for the company's newest, most expensive medicines?particularly drugs like birth-control pills or heart medications that a patient could potentially take for years. Once a patient starts taking a drug that works, he wants to stay on it?an obvious boon to manufacturers.

What's the problem with that? Possibly none. The result may be as inconsequential as a physician's prescribing one drug instead of a me-too pill from a competitor. But the bulk of the reps' efforts target pricey new medications?which ultimately drives up costs for consumers. And, critics say, newer isn't necessarily better. In many cases, older, cheaper drugs are just as effective. Occasionally, they're even safer. Serious side effects may be discovered only after pills have come to market, as the withdrawal of the painkiller Vioxx and the recent controversy over the diabetes drug Avandia show.

Fortunately, for doctors who kick the habit, there are independent sources of up-to-date information, such as The Medical Letter on Drugs and Therapeutics?a sort of Consumer Reports for drugs that takes no advertising and costs only $100 a year. Still, reps are nothing if not persistent. Dr. Robert Goodman, the founder of No Free Lunch, recently found several of them parked in front of his rep-free New York clinic. From the open tailgate of their SUV, they were promoting their products and handing out bagels and cream cheese to doctors "like a coffee truck at a construction site," he says. He didn't ask why they were there. He didn't need to.

? Newsweek, Inc.


http://www.newsweek.com/id/57342
 

seacrestkristi

Beach Fanatic
Nov 27, 2005
3,539
36
Bravo to those 'No Free Lunch' docs! I don't like the idea of my doc being basically bribed with goodies in order to promte prescription meds. :clap:
 

Jdarg

SoWal Expert
Feb 15, 2005
18,068
1,973
Viagra pens are a hot commodity.

I do think this is great. I have waited in too many doc offices, smelling the "free lunch of the day", waiting way too long for the drug rep to finish pimping the latest drug and feeding the staff (bribing with food), only to be prescribed the same drug advertised on the doctor's pen or post-it note. Screw it. I have many drug rep friends and their "entertainment" budgets could support several families. It is ludicrous.

Maybe the new generation of docs will be different.:clap:
 

SGB

Beach Fanatic
Feb 11, 2005
1,039
182
South Walton
It's especially irritating when your doctor insists on giving you a prescription for a non-generic and tells you that this $400 prescription is much better than the $4 generic the pharmacist just told you about. And this was for a prescription that had to be used monthly for about a year. We dropped that doc.
 

NoHall

hmmmm......can't remember
May 28, 2007
9,042
996
Northern Hall County, GA
Viagra pens are a hot commodity.

I do think this is great. I have waited in too many doc offices, smelling the "free lunch of the day", waiting way too long for the drug rep to finish pimping the latest drug and feeding the staff (bribing with food), only to be prescribed the same drug advertised on the doctor's pen or post-it note. Screw it. I have many drug rep friends and their "entertainment" budgets could support several families. It is ludicrous.

Maybe the new generation of docs will be different.:clap:

It's especially irritating when your doctor insists on giving you a prescription for a non-generic and tells you that this $400 prescription is much better than the $4 generic the pharmacist just told you about. And this was for a prescription that had to be used monthly for about a year. We dropped that doc.

"Free" lunch? Free lunch for whom? I take a medication that has no generic yet. Out of pocket, it would cost me $275 per month. Do any of you really think that it costs $8/pill to make, or do you think I'm paying for a lot of lunches and pens and tiny stuffed animals with a drug name?

The reps are constantly coming in to my allergy doc's office, yapping away on their cell phones in the waiting room, blah-blah-blah. It's refreshing to watch them go in, though, because my doctor seems to just grab the samples only to send the reps right out again! (He's big on passing out samples, and I've noticed that he doesn't show any preference to a particular brand...)

Insanity.

:bang:
 

seacrestkristi

Beach Fanatic
Nov 27, 2005
3,539
36
Hey, if you're a nurse in a large clinic or hospital the reps walk by you daily with big carts to feed the docs and residents. The nurses eat their brown bag or buy hospital cafeteria food if you even get a lunch break since you're probably short staffed too! That's a given. I can't tell you how many times in 20 years of nursing I wanted to grab a sandwich off that cart while I was bustin' it!:dunno:Doctors do work hard. So do nurses. :D Why doesn't someone feed the nurses? Oh yeah, they're not writing the prescriptions. :bang:
 

lcauley

Beach Comber
Sep 18, 2007
28
0
For all you PharmRep haters out there, let me give you a little bit of information that could possibly change your mind about trying to take my job.

First off, I am not sure if you know or not, but Pharm companies spend millions and billions of dollars on research and development of new products. Some companies are developing new products and some are taking an older medication and making it better. ex. older medications were almost always short acting. Patients were to take these medications multiple times a day. What do you think the compliance % was for taking a med 3 to 4 times a day? If you don't know the answer...its less than 30%. Now alot of these medications have been updated to a once daily medication, obviously boosting compliance to nearly 90%. Again, let me stress how much it cost a pharma company to do all the research, trials, etc. The FDA requires Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase 3, and Phase 4 trials on EVERY single medication that goes on the market. Good for consumers right? Would you want to take a medication that hasn't been rigorously tested? I wouldn't.

As for these "high priced" medications versus generic. Did you know that the companies that make generic medications only have 1 thing to show the FDA before they are approved? That one thing is that their medication is within 20% high or low of the active content of the "brand name" medication. Essentially, you could get a different medication everytime you walk in the pharmacy. The pharmacies are given a list of all available generics (because there are usually several companies making the same generic medications) the pharmacy obviously will choose the one that is the cheapest, which makes good business sense. So let me give an example:
You take "BRAND 10 mg" and then it goes to "GENERIC 1 10mg"...this means that this generic could be really 8mg or 12 mg. So lets take it a step further. SAME MEDICATION- Still generic "BRAND 10mg"
Generic 1= 8 mg active ingredient
Generic 2= 11 mg active ingredient
Generic 3= 9 mg active
Generic 4= 12 mg active
If the pharmacy got a new price list on each of these each time they ordered their medication, there could be a change each time you got your refill. In my opinion this is by no fault of the pharmacy. For a medication such as antibiotics, that you only take for 7 days when you're sick...i don't think it is that big of a deal. But when you are playing with your heart meds or blood pressure etc. I do think it is a little bit of a worry!

Next, have any of you ever used any of the samples that we horrible reps leave in the office. If so, have you ever used the samples and NEVER gotten the prescription really filled?? I think we just saved you a co-pay or for those who don't have insurance...the whole cost of the medication. Also, did you know that alot of companies have patient assistance programs, where patients who qualify with low income can get the meds FREE?

Last, the money spent...I will tell you right now that my monthly budget is $1000. I have 75 doctors that I call on from Gulf Breeze to Port Saint Joe. Do you think that is a huge budget? I think there are PLENTY of companies out there writing off way more than that for tax purposes..am i right? Everybody spends money on their clients, why is it bad for us to do the same thing?

So all I ask is that everybody realize that us horrible sales reps really aren't that bad. We are all out there just trying to make a living. There is good reason that we do what we do, I would personally never go to a doctor that didn't see reps. I think doctors are WAY to busy to do all the necessary research to stay up to date on all the changes in the industry and I want the BEST medications out there when I need to be medicated. I would hate to know what would happen if pharm companies just stopped doing research and coming out with new meds. I hope there are many more advances in medicine to come and I am counting on the pharma companies to pull us through.

As for pens, I have plenty if anybody would like a few!! :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:

lcauley

Beach Comber
Sep 18, 2007
28
0
Hey, if you're a nurse in a large clinic or hospital the reps walk by you daily with big carts to feed the docs and residents. The nurses eat their brown bag or buy hospital cafeteria food if you even get a lunch break since you're probably short staffed too! That's a given. I can't tell you how many times in 20 years of nursing I wanted to grab a sandwich off that cart while I was bustin' it!:dunno:Doctors do work hard. So do nurses. :D Why doesn't someone feed the nurses? Oh yeah, they're not writing the prescriptions. :bang:

seacrestkristi-
You should have been in one of my offices. I feed the whole office. Receptionist, nurse, and doctor. My company believes that the staff plays a big part in the office and we like to thank them for their hard work. By pharma code, we have to have a doctor present to be in compliance, but as long as they are present...all can be fed!
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,732
3,330
Sowal
I still want my politicians lobbyist free and my dr's office pharmacy rep free! Friends who are or were pharmacy reps have presented a much different picture than you have.

I agree that there are way too many new medicines for the doctors to keep current on all of them, but IMO a pharmacy rep is not the best unbiased education source.

The fact that a generic only has to be within 20% of the active dose of the name brand it replaces is ridonkulous! That needs to be changed ASAP!
 
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